Supertramp Sells Out.....!

[The old geezer]

.....to Hershey’s Kisses candy. “Give a little bit”. Ugh!!!

[Ron Moses]

Post by The old geezer
.....to Hershey’s Kisses candy. “Give a little bit”. Ugh!!!

Last I checked, you can't pay the mortgage with artistic integrity.

ron

[Martin Gregorie]

Post by Ron Moses

Post by The old geezer
.....to Hershey’s Kisses candy. “Give a little bit”. Ugh!!!

Last I checked, you can't pay the mortgage with artistic integrity.

... but there's a *much* better class of chocolate 'n candy to sell out
to than the one Hershey sells.

[Ron Moses]

Post by Martin Gregorie
... but there's a *much* better class of chocolate 'n candy to sell out
to than the one Hershey sells.

That's true, but it presupposes that Supertramp has their pick of companies to license their IP to. If Hershey's cuts a check and Godiva does not, there you go.

ron

[Ron Moses]

Does Supertramp even own their catalog?

ron

[Martin Gregorie]

Post by Ron Moses
Does Supertramp even own their catalog?

Good point, and one that didn't occur to me until today, when catalogue
ownership came up as part of the general talk about Neil Innes [*] having
just died. It turns out that the Beatles didn't own their own catalogue
either.

[*] Member of the Bonzo Dog Doodah Band and the Rutles, he wrote "Urban
Spaceman", the Bonzo's only real hit.

Sadly, I only saw him once, when he was the pianist during a recording
session for a couple of episodes of the Radio 4's "I'm Sorry, I Haven't a
Clue". That was back when Humphrey Lyttleton was its chairman and general
provider of mayhem - they made Neil sing "Urban Spaceman" while the
backing track faded out to see if he was still keeping correct time when
the backing track faded back in. He was.

[The old geezer]

Don’t really know. Michael Jackson outbid Paul McCartney for the Beatles catalog. Don’t know who has it now but have heard “Come Together” backing some ads. Murray Wilson sold the Beach Boys catalog. The question remains, Why would anyone sell the rights to their music?

[Ron Moses]

Post by The old geezer
The question remains, Why would anyone sell the rights to their music?

In decades past, artists just didn't know better, and labels had no incentive to educate them. You're 22 and starving, a record label offers you A RECORD CONTRACT and says sign here. You have no attorney, you have no idea what you're signing, but you're gonna be a star. Next thing you know you're pushing 50, you don't even own your life's work, and most of the money your music generates is going to someone else because of a single decision you made thirty years ago when you were young and stupid.

Nowadays that kind of thing still happens, but far less frequently because a) everyone's heard the horror stories so artists are less naive, b) the label model is widely being replaced by self-distribution, and c) there's no money to be made in recorded music anymore.

A longer answer than you wanted, I'm sure.

ron

[The old geezer]

Very much appreciated answer. Understand that it could happen 50/60 years ago but still now? In the Beach Boys case, Murray Wilson was smart... kept control of all the music rights but ended up selling them off when he got fired as their manager. Also, that’s why Mike Love was SO insistent as to their touring. The only way they made any $$. They only got 5 cents per Lp sold. Murray also had Mike’s name from song writing credits so Brian would get all the royalties. Mike is perceived as a #1 jackass but he did have his points. He was out there touring with the band 8 months of the year while Brian was home safe & sound.

[Ron Moses]

Post by The old geezer
Mike is perceived as a #1 jackass but he did have his points. He was out there touring with the band 8 months of the year while Brian was home safe & sound.

I've got no hate for Mike Love. I certainly prefer Brian's musical direction to the one Mike wanted to take the band in. But honestly, if I was in his position and the main songwriter of my surf group went off the deep end and started in with all this crazy non-commercial shit, I might not be so supportive either. Ultimately, you have to respect Mike's dedication to the band, and his willingness to work his ass off to keep it going.

ron

[The old geezer]

Granted. Mike kept the BBs name up there....in the public eye!

[Les Cargill]

Post by The old geezer
Don’t really know. Michael Jackson outbid Paul McCartney for the
Beatles catalog. Don’t know who has it now but have heard “Come
Together” backing some ads. Murray Wilson sold the Beach Boys
catalog. The question remains, Why would anyone sell the rights to
their music?

Money.

There's a biopic of the band Kansas, and Don Kirshner wouldn't have
signed them without getting their publishing. So we ( I anyway ) know
who they are, they made a lot of money from that one mistake.

It worked out.

[Mower B. Yard]

Post by Les Cargill
Money.
There's a biopic of the band Kansas, and Don Kirshner wouldn't have
signed them without getting their publishing. So we ( I anyway ) know
who they are, they made a lot of money from that one mistake.
It worked out.

No, it didn't. Don Kirshner ripped them off.

[Les Cargill]

Post by Mower B. Yard

Post by Les Cargill
Money.
There's a biopic of the band Kansas, and Don Kirshner wouldn't have
signed them without getting their publishing. So we ( I anyway ) know
who they are, they made a lot of money from that one mistake.
It worked out.

No, it didn't. Don Kirshner ripped them off.

That's not what they think. This stands as an item they negotiated away
to have the other stuff that came with that transaction.

The presumption is that had they walked away, nothing would have happened.

[Mower B. Yard]

Post by Les Cargill

Post by Mower B. Yard

Post by Les Cargill
Money.
There's a biopic of the band Kansas, and Don Kirshner wouldn't have
signed them without getting their publishing. So we ( I anyway ) know
who they are, they made a lot of money from that one mistake.
It worked out.

No, it didn't. Don Kirshner ripped them off.

That's not what they think. This stands as an item they negotiated away
to have the other stuff that came with that transaction.
The presumption is that had they walked away, nothing would have happened.

OK, but Don still ripped them off.

[Ron Moses]

Post by Mower B. Yard
OK, but Don still ripped them off.

I'm not sure I agree with that, assuming both parties had a full understanding of what they were consenting to. Consider two options...

1. If you decline my offer, you might get fifteen million dollars and a life of relative luxury doing what you love to do. Or you might get nothing and work in retail the rest of your life. No way to predict, or even know the percentages. Either way, I get nothing.

2. If you accept my offer, you definitely get five million dollars and the life of relative luxury doing what you love. I get ten million dollars and an even more luxurious life.

I'm thinking I accept the offer, and since I know exactly what my options are, I don't feel the least bit ripped off about it. (Obviously these numbers aren't accurate, it's just a thought exercise.)

ron

[Les Cargill]

Post by Ron Moses

Post by Mower B. Yard
OK, but Don still ripped them off.

I'm not sure I agree with that, assuming both parties had a full
understanding

That's arguable. I'm pretty sure they were all like "what's publishing?"
- at the time.

Post by Ron Moses
of what they were consenting to. Consider two
options...
1. If you decline my offer, you might get fifteen million dollars and
a life of relative luxury doing what you love to do. Or you might get
nothing and work in retail the rest of your life. No way to predict,
or even know the percentages. Either way, I get nothing.
2. If you accept my offer, you definitely get five million dollars
and the life of relative luxury doing what you love. I get ten
million dollars and an even more luxurious life.
I'm thinking I accept the offer, and since I know exactly what my
options are, I don't feel the least bit ripped off about it.

He's right in isolation to the publishing rights themselves.

Unfortunately... there's more to it than just that.

Post by Ron Moses
(Obviously these numbers aren't accurate, it's just a thought
exercise.)

While thing makes me think of Nash equilibria.

Post by Ron Moses
ron

[The old geezer]

I would believe that they would still get royalties for their tunes getting played on the air. “The Logical Song” still gets played every 10 minutes on Classic Rock Stations here in the area.